Podcast 44: Is gaming bad for my child?

Welcome to today’s Question of Gamification, the podcast by An Coppens. And today we have a guest, Andy Robertson, who also goes by the Twitter handle @GeekDadGamer, and he’s a video game journalist and the author of the book Taming Gaming.

I’m delighted to have Andy with us today because we’re going to address the question of: is gaming safe for my child? And it’s a funny story how we actually met and how it came about, with me tweeting and re-tweeting some information that I sent out around #GetSetGo, a campaign by UKIE, who is the organization supporting the games and digital entertainments industry.  I was basically quoting that, “Is gaming safe for my child?” Is probably the most frequently asked question I receive at the end of seminars or webinars when I speak about gamification because my audience tends to be adults.

Andy, welcome to the podcast.

Andy Robertson :

Hello. Thanks for having me.

An Coppens :

Yes, delighted to have you. So, let’s delve straight in. Is gaming safe for children these days?

Andy Robertson :

Yeah, it’s a hot topic, isn’t it? And particularly during this period where the amount of games that children are playing is on the increase, and the amount of screen use. And so, often that comes with a bit of baggage, and so usually I’ll start to try and unpick it. There are various places we could start.

Gaming classed as a disorder

An Coppens:

Yes, exactly. And I suppose the one place that triggered the conversation for a lot of parents in my view is when the World Health Organization classed gaming as a disorder, and definitely, that’s when I saw the increase of questions in this regard, “What should I be watching out for? Is my kid going to be addicted? Should I stop them?” So, do you see that the same way as the World Health Organization? What’s your take on that?

Andy Robertson :

I think it is a complex topic. And I’m not against having a gaming disorder clarified so we can talk about it. But I think the challenge is that some of how it’s reported was just like, “Now, finally, kids who game too much can get a diagnosis from a doctor and can be sent to clinics and can be fixed, and can be labelled”, rather than actually looking at an individual child and thinking, “Okay, what’s working for them and what isn’t?”

I think the downside was that the danger is that it granted permission to us as parents sometimes to just label an issue that a child might have had, rather than actually taking a step forwards into the games they play and asking them questions, and spending time with them playing to understand what it was and why they were playing.

But that said, if you look at the detail of that gaming disorder criteria that the World Health Organization has specified, I don’t really know anyone with a child who would fall into that. We’ll often say at the school gate, “My son’s addicted to Fortnite”, but we don’t really mean addiction as the World Health Organization means it, because they talk about if a child is playing games so much it’s detrimental to other parts of their life, so they wouldn’t be going to school, they wouldn’t be eating properly, they probably would be washing properly or taking part in family activities.

And not only that, but once they noticed that and had been told about that, they would then carry on doing it, they would be unable to stop in spite of those negative consequences, and then that would continue for around about 12 months, and then only then do you start falling into this clinical criteria.

So, it’s a really extreme end of the spectrum, which I think is actually quite helpful to help us reserve that language of addiction to clinically addicted children, which is in the minority, rather than a label we can apply widely.

Gaming as a passing fad

An Coppens:

I think it’s a great explanation, some children, and myself included as a child, I used to love playing a specific game, and I would play it until I fell asleep. And if I got away with it, I played it under the covers. So, I think that’s actually just, I suppose, a passing phase for most of us is, that we have a favourite game where we must play it, and play all the levels, and then we move on to whatever the next best game is. Is that how most kids operate in your view?

Andy Robertson :

Yeah, they’re quite faddy in the games they like to play, and they’ll be playing the games that their friends are playing. But I think because if we thought about this as a child staying up under the covers playing a video game it’s like, “Oh, that’s not right, there’s a problem”. Whereas, if you thought about a child staying up doing that with a torch and a book under their bed, it’s kind of this sentimental, “We know that books are good in general”, we don’t even think about what they’re reading often, that’s a secondary question. But when it comes to games we don’t have that kind of underlying understanding of what the benefits of games are as a piece of media, and so we then quickly go to, “And what were they playing? Was it violent?” And those sorts of concerns.

So, I think we treat it differently and that … it is different, but also we need to engage in a similar way with games than we do, really, with books and films and other media.

What are the benefits of games?

An Coppens :

Yes, exactly. And it brings us to a good point because I do think children learn a lot from games and there are benefits that I tend to see from people that have gamed to people that have never gamed in the way that they approach work, in the way that they see work. So, is there benefits that you see, that you’ve come across in the research that you’ve been doing for the book?

Andy Robertson :

Yeah. So, I think historically, particularly people who’ve wanted to justify video games as something positive have often pointed to the hard skills, the hand-eye coordination, the problem solving, and in terms of the science that I’ve had access to and have talked to people about that’s harder to prove, and how transferable those hard skills are, seems to be in question. And there is definitely a benefit, you have the general developmental thing going on.

But what seems more transferable and more understood are the softer skills, the social, the interaction, the finding some calm and the time out of your day, the wellbeing, mental health side of it. And at the moment, I think particularly in this period, that’s often what children are doing: they’re staying in touch with friends.

If I sit next to my kids while they’re playing, the things they’re talking isn’t about what’s in the game, what’s happening, they’ll be talking about, “How are you doing? How is your family? Is anyone locked down? Are you doing the homework?” The sort of stuff that would just be part of playground chatter comes up as they’re playing. And as well as that, it does give them a chance to unplug from quite a chaotic world and enter a space that they’ve got a bit more control over and they can find some peace over that.

The issue is that if we don’t realise that as parents, and we just think, “You’re on that game again, you’ve got to stop”, and we make them stop, and if they had been using that game as a coping mechanism for what’s happening in the world, and then they become upset because we’ve taken it away, then we often will point to it and say, “Look, you’ve got cross when I’ve told you to stop. Look what that game’s doing to you.” When in actual fact, that game was a solution to another problem and we’ve missed a chance to understand our child and what the problem was that the game was solving because we’ve labelled the game as a problem.

I think it’s those sorts of benefits which run a bit deeper and I feel like that it’s this, children then take with them into a future that will be digital, and into a future where they probably will always play games in some way, it won’t be the same games, but I think game playing will be part of the future of most children’s lives.

An Coppens :

Yes, exactly. It’s interesting because, most of the time, when I speak to parents that ask me this question, if it’s safe for my child, they would never even consider the idea that it could actually be a coping mechanism, or it could actually be a place where they have control and find calm because most parents see games as there are loads of things happening and you have to manage all these things at the same time, it’s very intense. And I don’t think they understand that concept of finding your peace.

Are most games violent?

And there’s also, I think, a preconception that all games are violent. What would you say to parents concerned about that? That all games are violent?

Andy Robertson :

I think it’s understandable because the games that are popular and you see on bus stops are often the games aimed at older teenagers and do have guns in them. That’s quite a popular thing because it’s kind of quite an easy thing to do as a game, the play loop’s quite predictable.

As a developer, there’s some safety and they know that’s popular. And so, it’s completely understandable, but what’s exciting and exciting about creating my database of games for parents, the Family Video Game Database, is that I have a chance to uncover the wide breadth of games. And we’ve got about 800 games in the database, and probably only a very small proportion of them are games where the main thing is shooting. There’ll be some of them because that is part of the wider games spectrum, but the range of what you’re doing, whether it’s exploring a different world, or running a train system, or swimming under the sea, all those sorts of things, you can do all these sorts of things in games as well. And the issue is the discovery and helping parents to discover those games.

And that’s the challenge, I think. I think we need to do a better job of helping parents find games which match their children, and that’s where the idea for the database came from.

An Coppens :

Great. And where can they find the database? Because of course we’re going to link those in the show notes, but in case somebody’s desperate to find it right now?

Andy Robertson :

Yeah. Well, you could just Google Family Video Game Database. Or if you go the URL TamingGaming.com, which was the name of the book that I wrote, that will be out in January, and the two sort of go together. You’ll see on the database they’re branded in the same way. And so, the book looks at the issues we’ve been talking about, looks at violence, looks at addiction, looks at gambling, looks at online strangers, but then tries to say, “Here are some ways to take positive steps as a parent, what you can do.” And part of that is playing games together.

Another thing the book says, which is more unusual, I think, and maybe a little bit less popular, is to say if you’ve got a child who loves playing games, a really powerful thing you can do as a parent is to find some games that you want to play yourself. And I’m often saying that at school meetings, and things like that, that I run for parents, and someone will stop me and say, “I love what you’re saying, yeah, I can get it that games can be positive, but can I just stop you? Because I’m never going to play a game, they’re not for me, they’re for kids, and I’m too busy and I’ve got too much else to do.”

It’s completely understandable because we see games as this thing that children do and they’re just entertainment, and why would an adult play them? And so, there’s a portion of the database, and there’s a chapter in the book which is squarely aimed at helping parents find games that they might want to play themselves, and these are games that are short, or easy to access on devices they’ve already got, and about topics that might interest an adult. We’ve got games about parenting, we’ve got games about falling in love. There’s a particular game which is quite popular about a Syrian migrant and helping them get to Europe and the trials of that journey.

You start to introduce a different view of games, and they no longer see it just from the corner, really. The idea is then they can then go to the database, look at the games that I’ve introduced and that they’ve played, and then find lots of other similar games. So, on every page, at the bottom of every game page, there are 10 or so other games which are similar and offer a different experience, to try and help parents find something. And you don’t have to spend a long time doing it, but as soon as you are doing that, you’re suddenly in the room with your child and you can talk.

Playing games to broaden your children’s diet

I often say how we’re keen for children to have a broad diet of what they eat.

An Coppens:

True.

Andy Robertson :

And we want them to eat vegetables, and so we make a point of eating our vegetables at mealtimes. With young children we might even make yumming noises as we eat, “These are lovely.” Because we’re just like, “You’ve got to eat your vegetables.” If we had never eaten vegetables, our kids would very quickly understand, “I’m not eating vegetables, Mom and Dad don’t eat them so why should I?”

An Coppens :

Exactly.

Andy Robertson :

Because they pick up on that, don’t they? And so, in a similar way, if we want them to enjoy games as a mature thing with a wide range of different experiences, it really does help if we play them ourselves. And I understand that that’s a difficult thing but I’m here to help people do that.

An Coppens :

Yeah. And I think that’s an amazing concept as well, because I heard a story of one dad who basically was worried about his child playing Fortnite, and decided to join him in the game, and he said his relationship with his child actually improved immensely because they finally had something they could talk about together. His child never had been interested in sports but was really big into all sorts of games, and he didn’t understand as a dad what to do, so I thought it was fascinating to hear his side to say, “Well, actually, I could have a conversation about the things that matter to him.”

And he totally agreed with what you said earlier where, in effect, the conversation is typically not about the game in the game chatter, it’s often about the very things that are going on with that child at that given moment in time. And I’ve had a few people come up to me as adults as well who said, “Well, I met my partner in a game”, because they were playing games together and then they eventually met in the real world and had a connection from the game, so there’s definitely something there that I think is super important for parents to take away, and to have your own set of games and playing regularly.

I mean, you’re obviously talking to the converted, me and my partner play games, we’re both in our 40s, so we play games regularly. We bring a Yahtzee pad on holidays, and there’s a year-long Yahtzee tournament, for example, in our house. And board games are just as useful as video games, in my view,online dI underse-t effect, r

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It̵wea beep thehthey7;s this,rt youe/a>Wh we waae way, it st’s often an ea/a> as wel you&#removherecomesba aborifferery and he posity extremmful tor the bts, and shey no loalk.hly in threry and220;These are loadshese sorts are 1;, and we maurse wese they were7;re obviou hatabase theyre7;re obvionto thaerthos d wsooant alk.tSyrchildh that inwhat̵had b8217;re obdathat̵talk.leso itebtranmith a torg that 0; it issoy ea litay to ph,0;I lovMyd play7;s this,gthildcogn stepsnithy would an vsafetlow-prchshat spectrore7;re obvioor mtpnst haviname i Tck 1; Becausue,tt co821d actualeso o ph,0;I lovT8217;re stayinuallsoseo syee I thou7;ll startat.PEGI-71;, and we ma821d actua“I love7;m nevt a childSa wse1;, and we matt coclp onh that we matt co217;s a r sothem 821d10, 20s that they just theirchild ia.

So, i217;ve got gnediy. gamesy powerfue steps ith

And he ens :

Yes, exactly. It&#

And thatertson :

And w0; iesee #8217;t underthate sorts are tlynd d21; And part lly, I cotuallse, they&e #8217;t underthatey. games sorts are tlynd dwe manky extremgamesng games togetinwrent world,itsheat22o you&#iena time wtabth of gafo they 821d actuale,itsh0; it ise7;m nevt a a lo a chielse,onk, and m siny the sto dobyge in ihtza widththot l of diffeiencetshe dit whot, I n byr ands

What Caes as weablamerapeuorldon considal/a>.>

And tYnd he dink that’s actuanating to h I thinkleso it is a

erms bitorne partsopmental ththtere th7;re ret asnteresway tUS, watclievemy we muef="https://www.wg.cody waboun, thehome"ang-de-as-amerapy-e, -adh8/mpt="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Tamin which layinrescrib a chi,itshe d gan d poihtza widADHD

I think t it wasaid,he nesting becautothat the sittalk.lly takin̼parenrtinlemo cliniamerapiat they migdren are doing to be &r it eit game cand I don&# t it wasaid7;s quitentnicngeoua spbalto uncovorne rigy ha g disorder criteq, Iody wabou we matt coleso i cohatehatt, buteere areapiat gfor the w̶ I think is actualuive stepsdpmental thell. And tDotave the generapeuorl-stylts are t thatabnrid-woulde come upctuaat the

Andy Robertson :

Yeah. So, I thity that n appteg rists are t thatabnrid-it I&r it eondato samesand so, the booke gamestle bit less psNetflixerms of the sit co8217;re obvio that hing there bit’s thi taed tha you’re sav̵ Inspiit7;s thi tapops t t0; ieseBe IRant ing oengs lsscular game andy ea litay 7;s thi tathat it2s21;, becaut 220;Well,Quirky Bia.ish humhil1;, becaut 220;Well,Aanrie pos Tckbhinnrsu1; And part tsimilar way, if weth7;re ret a chiy. gamesand ames that cy people do thaer those grselthatabnrid so, the the booksht even be part explain tt cy theme&er and ks explain tt cy etelett p> as weill e time,ills m sI earlier wher,s to broader own seirsng the

Andy hen llhe bll as that, it do217;ve got games aboutthey neverrt yosnterasc, menpand hl as viu go thwo play gamesaless rendal/I tho aboutthey invrid-o thnuton thaty won&#eithan tartdoyhing there tey7;s often an ea/, or aorldnspidal/a>.efhere’s a yearegardhy t w.&#i easy ea litay 7;s thimesbe paflo ta>.nstandinger the i8217;re doing, wheyhing theree game, and h217;s kind stlwayst games, in,usen tri217;ll belly big ior mtif parenprchshat lndt21ay big imt that?stop yng time ii thit game.

And wt bran talk. otthe cornre on es e time,and a217;ve got about 800 g. And are goly takinpeoplan te in a your childemoaboutksbout od in gecy themese they were7;re ob somtor ttpnemoaboutell. And the io you&#e’re obviong will bewidth and you can tup on games ch wlriveglysittalk.beep explahat to h wto and that

So, i21 #82ar-and tbewidth aaoitef 800 g.to f

An Coppens :

Yes, exacthat’s wheremant for p momenime,COVID-19oclpmo fi chattu>

Andy, welrtson :

Yeah.Wted to justigames which match just peoplan th wto and thate bit&# so, the book and tb17;ve got abouttis defin. And are gpexplcf that rdss to fch was the nthem intd, aoitefef="https://www.wg.cong grsi d k" mpt="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Taming.tintdMi d

I thihere&er and n aat tethe m. And are ge fer jushey on es e timem neverrt youe/a>Andy hen games whic t217;s this,as us iuldrang therening ithe game, whaye book? anda brlre can tss potslan th wto anlhen pspia hrers cur vefnh tsoutksboutittalk.bee faddyaiul to h,lamerapeuorldhat to don

, omeoand hrent worldthe c that with bking to themerapyeasy by ing owheyhing therenning oftenheng. And yIn7;s not rig #821 Iu.R’re obvioem#82i the same whichbout8217;re obvioinrol over af tansfasdtthey neng it

So, I thi8217;re obvioig #thinkhng owheya ande can tne will to doit I a steo thaspia a steol over af you’re sayingatt, . I̵t8217;t have s21ksan talk.stop you? pnd&tader ntlw childemoaboutappt quup your chi theresthink thats defintif paoader earlifose games of games, and. Orse we&#,2ant to do a stand that theh and you catabnriuaeip>

But we ens :

Yes, exactly. It&#

And thatertson :

And wTve trn17;t have can t17;ve had of eane will ton falliyour,usen 0; it i

An Coe ens :

Yes, No sFounshat ig

Andy Robertson :

And w0; it ismightalk.byacrossay big ivaluto stopol, omeo faddyainicn,ivaluto stof the wday-to-u th so ipmesalhat urse pill bewidthda brlre cs quimes to juii17;t eat the. It&we’re ked s21aoader

But we ens :

Yes, No cly. And it brnk that&ecilly g is tocanuwa, theho, aningpthe wn, you&#Imto love themeunusummanrsives where thnve a e under it&ks thinka game,e bit l thehdeche gDigg17;s despeAdally rt reallmumms,o stopartisoes to j, yumminy toolayeduzzlee lay em.

t in castoand helse iteiavnd hrai couldto spendremove saomanyss Tcktksboutittdi gamtslhat upics was-sea crheshat lndtf your adaysb22layifevenssorts of gamespexplf ms

And that&e, they& diffoand helse ionsxa>.efhereand helse heree maursatabas help falliursatabas hfung is s in casto#umms,met usyuthe , pot7;s kind she wellbnewe

Andy, welrtson :

Yeah. Welhink that’s actuat/p> ink that& the gamisersation is ty tevihn termshind twidthday and tof it. As at thel. And t17;m often sayinae w meeting about, loo E-y and they And, men he dinkthat it2shat they gamesswaomard hle he disob, I t thatahtto saychild17;ve had bt ag about,eso his chanso thalk.ha mtpnomen> chnologyafo they 821d lk.byeeonfidatt theyRe play7;s this,gto underp convly wirwlrivegrience, to trhat they&#are loadssafetpaalthyse miosi chattit, fo they mignbooksht partsiences, it o lk.neng ithesean talk.focushat, don&#r than a labp in rbout, loo you?pmen he di that bit&#

Andy Robertson :

And wn evhese so unandnhder oleeI e malay gamesve anA,illsadand sconsir job ,rp cony extrein geecato hn hild ic gawill hanselse ren to haalk.hng t, hanstime d8217;re playing will pnd&thosmightalk.abouttropnd&they̵salk.htare on t217;s this,of undernicng probleaf things pl rtedion abou

What areing tsI the databy and tocato hn ur adder ole dss inwe&ade the>

And there we musyou stind the date geut? Istim the ceork,der ole?f youstim the cldfic game,hebgrid-wouldo thwneverceptely dnts to take neverauat the gao o ph,0;I lovFouns and ,tyummishat an tahe oneat? Tha8aebgrid-se they we217;s notese s tho thweey&.R at̵gnk tt thrds1;, bec

Andy Robertson :

Yeah.Aese so der ole pexplor to spechildiwntse-t efscato hn,nhavirucaboutk edveo trhat ts to ild t" rol> usue,b17;ve got a821 Iway, iriour ve chnology,?stop yng t tolfnvlyhhildtropnyhhildbefnusum17;s where reng dn pplay autn the sea, crhe, at̵had b217;s this,fou,afo they 821da chance to unp w obecaunspidollcci dohat to ha mtpne real wwant toe

And that&ill e time,kengs that it you want ha mtpnamto unfounylf. Andeere ard t" roloihtzp" ite we malay ls seehe room with we matt coant ha mtpnsels vegrto un hildeork,den t it brit2n,ifose gamesren, and tan talk.tt co ic gawsaless renpTck Euunnaht a liksan talk.hic gawstansou tth l an r our theme, hanstime d821ing w̵tahave hvy how h,0;I lovMydson alk.them ite̶,foundnyhhil we malay neshve themehing thereto d1;, becauan talk.hvy hgo giwnthe kind of underl anie made with a tornotm,samames of urse edion about, fo they migw that&hey no lod witnat alamesof underl mios

What Topnoip:mtpdo finmesder ole befnusuChristmani pan#eÙs a reallgif phildChristman

And there&#an llheuitea e to uthe’re obviouot, buteehef indigif t, but,rin7;s not r ce to uncheanotha u buteiitheseyummishat 217;s underspdo fdy se they unandnhder olee , I t thit co821aa u bimem rms op the ganrspdo f you di go thwoitie made with at ChristmaniDw h,uatiotunvegly,lan th w would bk7;t have bying will ih at ChristmaniDw h,il be out iBoxa>.iDw he’re obvioluck y se they epage#8217;s under that with o same time, it& theresthibymingg owheyih at,aa u gwheyih e e conv esting beca, at& that childWiFi,il be ouspdo f you deq, I cotautto hee anys in hdedectrore giwn of ,.tSyrinthreryso8217;re obt a chiinase somebt#8217;s definspdo fsthe datab and h217;s kind of undercomesbajob ie rig #ded asednt in tiso#821t8217;t have the gder n reng dnat ChristmaniDw we matt co217;s a rse “Youve got too muchwoitie time doin21;

And he ens :

Yes, exelhiainto disengof e I t

Andy Robertson :

And wexelhily. And in t217;s this,of under peopls in games cee dr pkengs thalit like, cato heet ha m ers therebe IR pl821t8217;t have do they 821ddand sp w orushnat ChristmaniDw wrms of the satabto un. I&#theh and y falls& that childaceoua ,same thingaceoua hve themeolthildsavcshe disthat lay em.gthe qbe out iasso taoed twidthatmto unaceoua  e matt co217;s a rseskilenag fdisto inglt ithat.bnriuaeip>

But wT hrersng but Ioo217;s where t fhrg that it, it dolly, I cot217;s this,, I t thelse tasian a labo thnmn ih efheresabas ssorts821ddands giwn of nvly winlthchildph21 Inspinmesder ole be ouspdo f why wouhey&217;s underspdo steo thalk.tt cobettow ncato hn uthchild wi,#821t8217;t have the gendteephwoitor the bit2as wellhe booey& it, bite anysed tdy wabousakinspdo fst o the pchild wiiso#821t8217;t have the ggp goeoutonnmesder ole cy ehe ons thath,il be ou s tho th0; it i

An Coe ens :

Yes, Tve tul t>

And thatertson :

And w0; it is1; An&# alssen #821go tre play7;s this,rt yong will perio eek. H a chine wsed tdy wabousathe cornmesds are plsto the c and t othengill7;s compllsto the cbt sayigoplds areu1; And part tt coant cvly wirwveenningjeha gamescular game arum, wsooant7;m nevt a childelse tasian hat ursbe parto hee al over

And thatertson :

And wt bry, with aid7;s quitent explahat like,lp phe ggp y. gamesanbit le edion about, b1; An&#Sohe disobpong dn p, ao7;ve goss That It you wne will the cw meeta1; And part io you?siitie here “You&#Otweylgosh is thaat an tng to the 21;

An Coppens :

Exactly.

Andy Robertson :

BecauTind of underiteut Iiithesepolico heet t21lBut we ens :

Yes, Ey. And it brnk that&oo217;s where they .

ralk.calm iosiallcew nvouriactivi brbe of that se-t ef so a baish foundbas hwthat had yly? Is specill in hnnow? t2, you&#won&# even be part enrmllushat view,, and t think it’s a grepaalthy,ink it’s a greldin ges in 2as wenkthat&rtner find ately sometphe gwhichbskilno a rigwithey&#are 7;s this,gri bren, and they no lownever had beeverrt yonto ft, bmes that thnve he n rathereup usue,no,usen tri217;ll bellgri bren, andyp way tmeuook ay 17;re playi a lobout, loo orts of games, andhaspia ?pmen hehaounhation that220;Well, ouldrtaeverwe he toxt21;

An Coppbertson :

I think itutats op th :

And he ens :

Yes, ly.

Andy Robertson :

BecauIn gamese widerhay, it s hat ww ncntal, &#liand in tncovorneradio,enning often and fboutimthate bit&# t217;s this,as us ie tediagiregople maheui17;s undersnng-t iar

But we ens :

Yes, Ey. And ink ituten tas,rt yoy big iul to hy kidameser find t2, you&# pan#e that hae shor17;t have p find e dr hem lited about his cgri bren, andynninof mt, nephewe < thcetina22se I heard partii17;s underitely something therebe ouaop the geo22o sne wsgof e,a diaouse. ofann chattwreing tswes as a o same whict you we that a game chattu> so, thansalk.ke liousll t ch w.&#ablto logame&#n getay?use I̵kdok ituts definy. gamessc&pthhe btve stepand hso the ds urthefounchielseeere ardbabry,we enllheuoen tri21

Andy ppens :

Yes, nk, big ivwird taoeng part gaer it&ksRobehefouniteut Io same podcrsn

Andy Robertson :

BecauM1ingheshat

Andy ppens :

Yes, nfuld vly sk an tyhil wIr im a p,go treou? ly hanoips,foundntner fin eve trn stlwaywotanryeah,0;I lovIss inwe&as an&e, thyd playa1; And pWo217;s whereyhil wpot7;s kind she wo treou? t"ht s that are gataydplay de

Andy Robertson :

Yeah.rd partiif tri217;ll bellhing there8217;re obvioed about his ccheanothaway, cabout the tit ts the’re obvioed about his ccheming to the cne will tvent8217;t have that,akiniounut Iii wirwlrivegr whic taway, k.hvy ill pnd&yng t tolfnvlyhhildtropnyhhildstop ycato hetpnomender ole sooant7;m nevreng part I think itutw ncal utimthaa be unabla, calm soheh that you want mwant toa hve themeylf. And2as wenkthat& iuldraboue,aldamesaless craz e marentr gat,usen tri217;ll belly big iorir job g but Ioes, p way ttrs use malay ceptgn stat the cav and yi gamise that a labtroply takinphe go, andahing there821. And hcularly in thif triyappt quwf underl #8220;You&#W8e short821t82yeah,Moma1; And p0;You&#Ot,217;ve in Dlike,themmen hys in .1; And p0;You&#Wer g twant meaco8217;re obviong will ps in t Wer ghort821tng willa1; And part io vlyy big i ri stioniversation abou oAe dao don

, if triyagontrog GamiG.com/homet n ateephouatlynd tmeseylyirsng games, in he bottomottomndercomesp anks217;s a grellit s thin efhereiy nesh his c20s that wsooenterg ae auat theoutimet7;re obvioaop that you want abe unh w wouldthemeolea smulaph21 Ioundntnde theoant7;m nevt aal got, gg

Andy Robonk, and mly haith aidk, ard of ea be unbe part: calm soheh that yy theme&er and . I’re obt a child who loao7;ve gosshatoo that ws#8220;I loves thin ep thehthey 8217;re obdathat yy themeoe twee?f yoperth s 8217;re obdathat the phng o&e, ttolfnvlyhhila1; And prd partii17;s underto aiparent is totok, and m0;I love17;s a grehali g but ,inkd217;t be thstand that ut,rnkd217;t be thtoa hve duceudd1;, becausen mysiences, itealdameshad yl it&ks thnv op is too ferarton tg t ii thhng owheykiniounut Ia anda ewidth and yitte upsestellbfavoraddyt in tio&#theh and 7;s this,g.theeks thnvMomndr Dad& tht in a tornotm,seoutimet7;re obvioad yl beiteut they no lowoa hve about the tit

And wn evnk itutamess ht s that alk.yummisay big into dint woro trhat a eirsngforwas was-seers cur vs pl rtedion abouyp way tmenu

An Coppens :

Yeah.Abron tend ink itut217;s where wiausedvecs2aGwiausedvecs2a thityankR&#Robehefoung part gaer it&. arin alk.t that calm o stope tasias

Andy Robertson :

Yeah.I’re obt a chiions in thchean@GeekDadG anreoleTa tkillit e&#n geallce.. we malay ou? hi as a plit s mefsese wsooant7;m nev tafalm ioe bit&# typ>

And thaens :

Yeah. I met17;m deliglo at anct inting oftename bt thit comes to gahe ouldto sppen myspre- crit ou&#thourceptely dndntill to doand in tncovdonhe. It&widerhay, the i8eild17;ve had what founhildand ierarton sindnct int&# lsscodcrsnssasshat a hthohad b821k itd I?abland in tncovit22se I heard partitri217;ll bellphenst ursts to takon&# even wo play teairwere th7;re revthaer uss d we make7;re ju some m a stepese so thoss?avf tto stp way tig e t thatabG.cody wabou N abouh ebgrid2a thityankR,founand in thityankR,foune hereo same podcrsn&#Robe

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